Future Talks 09 : Kiyoaki Takeda

ZZ: Thank you very much for showing us your office in Tsuruoka House and its great roof garden. To start, could you briefly introduce your studio and describe the main principles and values of your work?

KT: The main concept of my architectural office is "Nature and Architecture". We don't think of architecture as an independent box. In the midst of various social and environmental issues, we design environmentally friendly buildings, — which means not only the built space and architecture, but also the environment surrounding the architecture, supporting non-human organisms at the same time. We take care of the wider natural context to preserve its values.

ZZ: How do you perceive the role of an architect in current and future society? Do you have any concerns about the future of your profession?

KT: Well, in 2020, the scientific journal Nature published a study showing that the mass of architecture, infrastructure, and other man-made structures has become heavier than the mass of all living things on the planet. I honestly don't know yet if those masses are going to start reversing and what the consequences of that situation will be, but I see it as a singularity of some kind. Architects have been designing buildings as symbols and monuments, and trying to improve society and the life of communities, but at the same time they have contributed to the increase of man-made objects and have degraded nature. I believe that the role of architects in the future should be to create nature at the same time as creating man-made objects. This office—Tsuruoka House—is a typical example: the structure itself is heavy with concrete, but this building is becoming heavier and heavier as it holds soil, stores rain water, and grows more plants and trees. In other words, it is designed to increase the mass of natural objects as well.

ZZ: How do you think about the future of architecture and the future of cities? How is this thinking reflected in your work, and how does it affect it? How far into the future do you think?

KT: I relate thinking about the future to the topic of Nature and Architecture. Nowadays, nature is a distant thing for urban residents. We tend to perceive nature through the media and imagine nature in the form of virgin rain-forests and mountains which we see on TV and in photographs in magazines, while in cities like Tokyo, there is not much pure nature included. We imagine cities as human places with many buildings. In our images and unconscious, nature and cities are divided by a big wall. In the future, I believe that nature should intervene in the city more, or that a little bit of human intervention in nature should collaborate and lead to a harmonious relationship between the two.

ZZ: So, you imagine that nature should be blended more into cities in the future. Cities are spreading into nature all the time as they are growing, and the urban environment is limiting the natural environment, so you think nature should take that space back?

KT: Yes, but the wrong way does not bring good results. Until now, the way environmentalists and governments think, is that as humans keep destroying nature, it is necessary to create nature reserves as national parks, which are off-limits to humans because otherwise humans would take nature away. But no matter how many boundaries we create, the two (the human world and the natural world) are constantly connected by air, by rain and water flow, and the area of wild nature is shrinking year by year anyway. As a result, there is less space to connect to and understand nature and people get more distant. We are disappointed and have been repeating such a spiral over and over again. Recent studies have shown that there is no area left on the planet where humans have not stepped foot, not even in Amazon rain-forests, and that humans have tinkered with all nature in no small way. If that is the case, then I think that we should consider the Earth as a large landscape. I believe that from now on, instead of keeping nature separated, as in the case of nature reserves, humans should actively recreate nature and design the environment, so that nature will be enriched as a result.

ZZ: You mean that there should be some intervention by humans into nature in order to repair it?

KT: Yes, exactly. It would be good to have as many trees in the cities and on the planet as possible —to recreate the landscape in the cities. For example, an avocado tree growing in the Amazon and an avocado seed bought from a supermarket that grew on its own in a rubbish dump are of equivalent value for me. Also, some people claim that artificially planted street trees in cities are not natural, but I believe they have no different value than trees in the jungle.

ZZ: How do you perceive the importance of the architect's influence on the lives of ordinary city dwellers, and where does it lead you in your own work?

KT: I would like to influence citizens with a very simple idea. As I said, I believe that the more trees there are in the world, the better it is, whether in cities, rural areas, or in nature. Buildings in the city do occupy the land and that limits the space for nature. If we could use the rooftops as gardens or elevate the buildings higher over ground, we could give space to nature in the cities more easily. I want to design a prototype building that is a seed for this idea to spread. People living in cities tend to give up on living in harmony with nature, but I don't want to give up.

ZZ: So, you think architects can influence by inspiring and sharing the positive vision. Which social aspects do you find most important for architects to think about?

KT: I think the scrap-and-build culture is a social problem. In particular, modern general architecture production lacks the concept of time and is treated as a commodity to be consumed, it is just a business. The point at which a building is completed is the goal, after its period of use, there is no longer any attachment to architecture of that building and its aging. When I was a student, I spent three years in Europe studying abandoned buildings and ruins in France or Italy. I realized that, as a matter of course, 'architecture decays' but that the time is what adds the quality and beauty to it. Attachment seems to enhance the quality of architecture. I felt that Japanese buildings seem to resist decay, as some people think that its ugly when for example the walls of a building have the marks by rain runs down, that are colored by the dust and sand in the rain. To me it is a beauty, it is not just dirt, but a sign that the building has accepted the natural surroundings.

ZZ: How does climate change influence your work?

KT: When I was little, summer temperatures in Tokyo I saw in the News were at 30°C, but now it is not uncommon for temperatures to go up to 40°C. As temperatures change, the types of plants that can grow here are also changing. Maybe bananas will grow in Tokyo (laughs). It is not easy for architecture to respond to these climate changes. This is because once architecture is built, it is not easy for it to change itself even if the environment around it changes. This is a plant encyclopedia, detailing plants that thrive in shade, their scents, and their vitality. Understanding such plant characteristics is of great importance to me. For example, if the temperature gets higher and you solve this problem with louvers, with another change in the environment this already may not be enough to solve it and to keep up with changes more complex change would be necessary. I try not to rely on such man-made objects and ask plants to do as much as possible. Plants adapt to their environment, spread their leaves and function like louvers.

ZZ: This is an interesting idea related to the topic of responsive architecture, as you can see that parametrical architecture is coming up with the kinetic facades to react and respond to changing environmental conditions, but actually you could do it more easily if you understand the nature and the principles it works on.
How do you perceive the influence of the SDGs (Goals of the UN 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development) on Japanese architecture and how do you reflect them in your work?

KT: I feel that the SDGs are just an old man's game. By setting targets in numbers, they lack a practical sense of reality. As it lacks the aspects which would relate those ideas to daily experience it makes the people to wonder like which is it the nature we should protect, is it Amazon rain forest, is it some distant nature? It would be nice if more nature was within our reach every day. People would have time to relate to it and start to understand how to protect it, for example, nature close at hand gives us the opportunity to feel it, for example, when we pick a fruit, smell a herb or cook it.

ZZ: How do you see the SDGs influence on Japanese architecture? Does it have any?

KT: I think it is a good influence. It is a good trend that environmentally friendly architecture and construction is becoming the standard. The next step, as I said before, is to realize it closer to home.

ZZ: Do you see the Japanese public debate on the sustainability and adaptability of cities as sufficient and fruitful? Could you find any examples of its outcome?

KT: I think debates and events are often held on the environment. I sometimes attend lectures and so on.

ZZ: What are the possibilities and limits of Japanese architects in creating ecological/sustainable architecture?

KT: I would see that the limits start in education system. In Japanese universities, there is little interaction between departments. The so-called silo mentality creates limits. In architecture departments, there is a tendency to solve all social or ecological problems in the field of architecture, but it would be better to actively incorporate help from other genres, to teach multidisciplinary cooperation. For example, if there is a project to design a new ecological building, architects tend to answer with new technologies and architectural elements, but it might be something that can be solved by simply planting trees appropriately in a certain place. Bridges to other disciplines are important.

ZZ: In the eyes of Europeans, Japanese architecture has a very close relationship with nature. Where, in your opinion, do these roots lie? And is this relationship about ecology and sustainability?

KT: I think the roots lie in the fact that in Japan there are four seasons, temperature changes from very hot and humid to very cold and also there are many natural disasters, so private houses have been built to adapt and to respect the natural environment. I see big difference in Japanese and European style gardens, the Japanese style like ''Karesansui'' is to make it look as if nature has created it itself, while the European style is to design nature. The garden in front of this office was not deliberately designed as a garden of a particular style. The reason for this is that there is a park across this site, from which many birds come. They drop droppings containing the seeds in my garden and so there are a lot of plants growing wild which I did not plant. If I would decided at the design stage that it was going to be a Japanese garden, plants from outside would be outsiders and would have to be excluded. This garden is positively accepting of all the different types of plants and is changing on a daily basis. Professional gardeners would probably call it crazy, because there are bananas planted next to "Toro" the traditional garden stone lanterns (laughs).

ZZ: How do you perceive the problems of UHI (urban heat island) in Japanese cities? How do you see the use of NBS (nature-based solutions) in this context as we can see that you use them in your work?

KT: Until now, contemporary society lives with the idea that nature is harmful to human life and developing the ways how to protect from it. But I think that on the contrary, by accepting natures functionally, even heavy rain and harsh sunlight can be transformed into energy that can be used for living into elements that are supportive.
To spread this philosophy, I think it is important to design architecture as simply as possible. Through the reproducibility of principles, which anyone can imitate, it can be spread throughout society. By designing private houses I am creating the prototypes, the seeds to plant this ideas.

ZZ: How do you perceive the role of public space in contemporary Japanese cities? How do you include it into your design process?

KT: When designing a public space, you should think not only about the architecture, about the kind of people who will gather there but also who will take care of that space on daily basis. For example, if you build a public building with roof garden, that is many times bigger than the rooftop garden of this office, there is the question of who is going to manage it. In Japan it is common, that the public space is provided as a service. But ideally, that would not depend on a management company, but on the users and the community working together to grow it.

ZZ: Looks like a nice idea of community managed gardens, but is it possible in Tokyo?

KT: We are currently designing a hotel, where flower seeds are going to be placed on the desks in the rooms. Guests could go up to the rooftop garden to plant them, if they come next time, they find out how soon they will grow and when they will bloom. We hope they will keep coming back there again to enjoy it.

ZZ: It is a bit connected with the next question, if you use methods of participation/communication with the public or the local community in your work and how do you perceive this method in the context of Japanese society?

KT: In Japan, I feel that when people in towns shape their environment, they often, almost without thinking, do things that end up helping the community and the neighbourhood. For example, I often see houses that place potted plants along the edge of narrow alleys. They're not especially beautiful, but everyday life spills out into the street, and that view becomes a kind of micro-public. When these small scenes come together, they seem to form a good public space. To me, this feels more fitting---and more Japanese---than someone formally directing how the public should be made.
In a kindergarten project I recently worked on, the principal tied ropes between a big tree and a jungle gym, turning them into play equipment for the children. I find it really interesting how he uses them without strictly separating the artificial from the natural. In my own design, I try to make spaces where users can think, improvise, and create in this kind of guerrilla-like way.

ZZ: What would you recommend to the upcoming generation of architects - students of architecture, what topics should they focus their attention on?

KT: I think it is important for architecture students to be interested in things other than architecture, to have wider range of knowledge in other disciplines. I think there are a lot of new ideas hidden in that hybrid state, which have not yet been discovered. To think just inside the box of architecture is becoming limiting.

ZZ: Thank you for sharing your unique perspective with us.