Future Talks 06 : Toshikatsu Ienari

Interview No. 06
dot architects - Toshikatsu Ienari (TI)
27.02.2024 // Osaka, Japan

ZZ: Thank you very much for showing us around your office and the other projects you built in your neighbourhood. To start, could you briefly introduce your studio and describe the main principles and values of your work?

TI: Our firm consists of eight people. We do various activities such as architectural design, construction, art, film production and performance. What we value is to think and create by ourselves. Half of our work is design and construction work for clients, and the other half is more like art works, furniture design or filmmaking and performance activities that we come up with ourselves. We focus on handmaking and building things by ourselves.

ZZ: That is an interesting combination with architecture design. What kind of performance activities and movies do you make?

TI: Sound and body movement performances. For example, we researched the topic of water circulation of lake Biwa (located in the north part of Kansai region on which Osaka's water supply is dependent) then we performed it in the theatre or another one was about the sea waves. Or we made a fiction movie about an architect going to space (laugh). By the way, have you seen this?

ZZ: Okonomiyaki, right?

TI: That is correct. How this famous Osaka food, a piece of okonomiyaki, is made is supported by logistics from all over the world. Wheat is mostly produced in the United States and China and is transported by ship. Wheat uses vast amounts of groundwater and is studied to see how efficiently it can be produced. Leeks and cabbage are sent by truck from Gunma and Chiba prefectures because freshness is important. Although the self-sufficiency rate for pork and eggs is high, it is low when considering the food animals eat. In Brazil, where corn and soybeans are grown, forests have been burned and are being turned into fields. Considering a single piece of okonomiyaki brings up issues of the planet. How we live by indirect relationships, we can learn from okonomiyaki. We are architects, and we are trying to figure out how we can create those direct relationships.

ZZ: So, you are trying to promote locality and self-sufficiency, to focus on using local resources?

TI: Yes, to use local material in construction or in food production is important for us. We have a workshop here in our office and we can create things by ourselves, we also set up the community garden in our neighbourhood. Or we created the coworking space of Umaki Camp (2013). This was designed and built together with local people. It is a very simple design and the tools are all easy for amateurs to use. There we created a space where local people can bring over surplus of their homemade vegetables and share it for free with the community or feed the goat with it. We provided them with space for a radio station and so on. Our activities are not only architectural design, because we think and decide what is needed in the place.

ZZ: I was about to ask you how you perceive the role of an architect in current and future society but from what you said I understand that the various spectrum of activities is the role of an architect for you. Is that as a facilitator or as an educator?

TI: Well. Just we started to say "let's do it" (laugh)

ZZ: Then you are surely an ACTIVATOR, you activate the community. You find out what is needed or missing in the city and act to solve it?

TI: Exactly. We work with people to raise bottom up projects.

ZZ: What are the differences between Japanese villages and cities?

TI: In cities, if you want something, you can easily buy it, but in villages, on the other hand, people often make things by themselves. Making things results in the formation of communication between people. We would like to introduce this mentality to city people and inspire them to make things by themselves.

ZZ: Is your idea connected more to support self-sufficiency? Or is it to support historical skills and technology?

TI: More for self-sufficiency, but sometimes the process requires historical skills and technology. There are many things that correlate to the process of reaching a certain goal. Look at this diagram of material. When we use water, we may take it directly from rainwater, store it, or obtain it from vapor. People in the past knew how to bring nourishing soil through rivers. They used this soil for rice paddies. In doing so, the soil would collect excessively in the rice paddies, so they used it for walls and roof tiles of their houses. It's a circular system. In other words, we don't make architecture our goal, because architecture is only one part of that circulation. The house we designed following this concept is the "Temporary house (2022)". The house uses no concrete and is built on a large stone. The walls are made of wood and are not only easy to build but also easy to dismantle and recycle. Maybe we could even use it for firewood. It connects our main principles, thinking about the circulation of local materials, it came from collaboration with local people and it was built by ourselves.

ZZ: How do you perceive the importance of the architect's influence on the lives of ordinary city dwellers and where does it lead you in your own work?

TI: House builders build a huge number of buildings per year and the average quality is not so high. Ordinary city dwellers are naturally influenced by these buildings design, and it is not in a very good way. Developers just build more buildings to get more capital. We, small architecture offices have to think carefully about the influence of our projects and make a big controlled impact, even by a small project. We are soft anti-capitalism (laugh).

ZZ: Maybe with some aspects of anarchy? (laugh) Which social aspects do you find most important for architects to think about?

TI: It is said that one-eighth of the total number of buildings in Japan are vacant. Maybe there is no need to build new buildings anymore. Shrinking population and declining birth rate are probably the cause of the vacant house problem. The disparity between the rich and the poor is also a factor that creates gentrification. There are many social problems in Japan.

ZZ: How does climate change influence your work?

TI: I don't feel any direct impact at the moment, but in the future we will have to think about environmentally friendly architecture to survive. Maybe it is off topic from climate change, but I see the topic of a much smaller number of people working in agriculture as an issue in my mind. I fear that climate change will accelerate that problem. Very heavy rains have become more common in recent years, and I believe that the plants and crops that are possible to grow will change in the future.
I think the field of environmental engineering, which studies how to control indoor temperature, wind, and sunlight, will become more important in the future. But such technology is costly, so I would like to consult on these issues with AI for solutions. Even now, many architects still rely on experience and intuition (laugh).

ZZ: How do you perceive the influence of the SDGs (Goals of the UN 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development) on Japanese architecture and how do you reflect them in your work?

TI: Housebuilders and general contractors have been talking about the SDGs a lot in recent years, but our firm has always been considering the topics of SDGs (laugh). We don't really think about the SDGs in that sense, because we are already doing them.

ZZ: So, it is in your DNA.

TI: Junior and high school students are also educated about the SDGs in school, but few of them understand them perfectly. Even if they do understand them, how to approach them in reality is important. I believe that the SDGs are not something that should be tackled by governments, it should not come from top down, but it is something that should be dealt with on a local basis and with the right materials for the right place.

ZZ: Do you see the Japanese public debate on the sustainability and adaptability of cities as sufficient and fruitful? Could you give some specific examples of its outcome?

TI: I see a debate among universities and architects. Some architects are still looking for beautiful spaces, but others are looking for a sustainable society. So, we could say that it is partially satisfactory, but not so much if you ask if it is generally known. At least my neighbour lady definitely doesn't think about it (laugh) I feel that many older people don't think much about the environment. There are not so many opportunities for them to get to know these concepts of sustainability. We are teaching about sustainability at the university through design and not only architects, but also product designers or fashion designers. But it will take time to spread those ideas.

ZZ: So, this debate is more academic than public. What are the possibilities and limits of Japanese architects in creating ecological/sustainable architecture?

TI: The Japanese building industry is a large industrial network. It could be called a business network. Many elements we include in our houses, from toilets, stove, refrigerators to furniture are industrial products. In this sense, a huge number of people work and consume to build a single building. In today's society, it is difficult to escape from this network. So, you as an architect don't have control over its sustainability.

ZZ: In the eyes of Europeans, Japanese architecture has a very close relationship with nature. Where, in your opinion, do these roots lie? And is this relationship about ecology and sustainability?

TI: From my point of view, traditional European architecture also has a strong relationship with nature. In Japan these days, gardens and other natural features are designed for aesthetic purposes. In the past it used to be customary to produce vegetables and fruits in the garden. From the perspective of old Tanka poems and paintings, it was more closely related to nature cycles. In addition, 70% of Japan's land is covered by mountains, and there are many rivers on the plains, so there is extremely little land for human habitation compared to other countries. In my opinion, the roots of the Japanese people's close relationship with nature can be traced back to the fact that they had no choice but to live in that limited space in nature and make respectful use of nature. As an island nation, resources were very limited and these were treated with great care.

ZZ: How do you perceive the problems of UHI (urban heat island) in Japanese cities? How do you see the use of NBS (nature-based solutions) in this context and do you use them in your work?

TI: Japanese cities are often planned for logistics. Therefore, the ground is covered with concrete, asphalt, and other heat storage materials. Unfortunately, this means that cities are not for people but for logistics and capitalism. Rooftop and wall greening are increasing, but at a high cost. I don't know if those are the solutions for UHI, but I am sure that in many cases they are incorporated for promotional purposes and marketing.

ZZ: How do you perceive the role of public space in contemporary Japanese cities? How do you include it into your design process?

TI: I think Japanese public space is very different from the West. Japanese public space is for everyone, like the European one, but Japanese people's attitude is "it is not mine" Japanese people tend to hesitate to use things that belong to everyone. In addition, they don't want to use it because of the strict rules of use, with many prohibited activities. If we create our own public space, bottom up with community engagement, I think local people will start using it. I planted bananas and herbs in a nearby park without permission in Guerrilla gardening style (laugh). There is also the issue of maintenance, for example fallen leaves from street trees. Currently, the government is responsible for cleaning up the fallen leaves that accumulate on the streets. But because the government does not want to receive complaints from citizens, the number of street tree planting projects is decreasing.

ZZ: So, again it leads to the question of how to engage local people in the process. Do you use methods of participation/communication with the public or the local community in your work?

TI: It is important that there is no hierarchy and that everyone works equally on a project. This makes it easier for everyone to voice their opinions. I am not trying to create a community, I am just trying to add more people to the goal.

ZZ: How do you perceive this method in the context of Japanese society?

TI: It depends on place and conditions. But we find it easier to work in the countryside because people in the city think only of consumption. It is important to get to know each other through sake and local festivals. It takes time, but once we get close, people really engage and help a lot.

ZZ: What would you recommend to the upcoming generation of architects - students of architecture, what topics should they focus their attention on?

TI: In Kyoto University of Art I teach Spatial design, but what we really teach is Social design. I lead the students so that they should focus on sustainability, ecology, ecosystems, environment, locality, community, inclusivity, circularity or recycling. It is also important to find materials from around us. You can find them in the mountains, in rivers, in cities.

ZZ: Thank you very much for all your insights and inspiring ideas!